In this first edition of our special Research Round-Up series, we dive into groundbreaking research that examines a novel way to put adolescent & young adult (AYA) survivors BACK in the driver’s seat of their care.
Dr. Kelly Martin, physical therapist & TheOncoPT team member, joins Elise to discuss the importance of education and bridging the gap in AYA cancer care by leveraging social media.
Even if you despise social media, you DO NOT want to miss the conversation because we also dive into what this means for OncoPTs (regardless of your social media use/presence).
YOUR PATIENTS ARE ON SOCIAL MEDIA & ARE USING IT TO EDUCATE THEMSELVES.
Therefore, it is YOUR responsibility to help your patients find accurate, reliable, helpful education online.
Bridging the Gap in Cancer Care: Crucial for AYA Survivors
Cancer care is continuously evolving, but there remains a significant gap in addressing the unique needs of the adolescent and young adult (AYA) population. These individuals, typically ranging from 15 to 39 years old, face distinct challenges that differ from those of younger children and older adults. Education and awareness are critical to bridging this gap and ensuring that AYA cancer survivors receive comprehensive, tailored care.
One of the most pressing issues for AYA cancer survivors is the lack of age-specific support and resources. They often find themselves in a limbo, too old for pediatric services yet too young to relate to older adult patients. This demographic has unique concerns such as fertility preservation, career disruption, educational setbacks, and psychosocial impacts that require specialized attention.
Want more on AYA oncology? Check out these episodes:
Leveraging Social Media for AYA Cancer Survivors
In today’s digital age, social media has become an invaluable tool for connecting people and disseminating information.
Social media can help fill the informational void by providing educational content tailored to the AYA audience. But perhaps more importantly, social media fosters a sense of community. AYA cancer survivors can connect with others who understand their journey, share their stories, and offer mutual support. These connections can reduce feelings of isolation and empower patients to take an active role in their care.
The Vital Role of OncoPTs in Guiding Patients to Accurate Resources
As an OncoPT, you not only aid in the physical rehabilitation of cancer survivors but also play a crucial role in guiding them to accurate and accessible resources. YOU are uniquely positioned to understand the holistic needs of your patients, making you invaluable in bridging this informational gap.
You can help your AYA patients navigate the often overwhelming amount of information available, directing them to reputable sources and helping them understand complex medical jargon. You can also advocate for your patients, ensuring they receive comprehensive care that includes physical, emotional, and psychosocial support. By educating your patients about their condition and available resources, you equip them to make informed decisions about their treatment and survivorship.
Harnessing the Power of Social Media for Patient Education
Social media platforms are more than just entertainment outlets; they are powerful tools for education and patient engagement. These platforms can be particularly effective in delivering educational content in an accessible and engaging manner.
And as Dr. Kelly Martin, PT, observes in today’s conversation:
“Why reinvent the wheel? If it’s already there & they’re already using it, how can we play to our advantage…& better utilize what’s available to us?”
Collaborative Care: Leveraging Strengths of Healthcare Professionals and Influencers
Comprehensive cancer care requires collaboration among various healthcare professionals, each bringing their expertise to the table. OncoPTs, oncologists, dietitians, mental health professionals, and other specialists must work together to address the multifaceted needs of cancer patients. By leveraging each other’s strengths, we can provide a holistic approach to treatment and survivorship.
Influencers and advocates on social media also play a role in this collaborative effort. They can amplify educational messages, share personal experiences, and connect patients with resources and support networks. By partnering with these influencers, we can extend our reach and impact, ensuring that accurate and helpful information reaches a broader audience.
This is how we bridge the gap.
Bridging the gap in cancer care for the AYA population is crucial for addressing their unique needs and improving their overall outcomes. Social media serves as a powerful tool for providing information and support, while you play a vital role in guiding patients to reliable resources. Through education, advocacy, and the strategic use of digital platforms, you can enhance the care and support provided to AYA cancer survivors, ensuring they receive the comprehensive care they deserve.
Join the conversation over at TheOncoPT Specialization Community!
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Transcript
Elise – @TheOncoPT (00:19)
Hey, Onco PT and welcome to this episode of the Onco PT podcast. You may not know this, but you actually know this guest because Dr. Kelly Martin is actually one of my amazing team members who has been working behind the scenes for several years now, Kelly. I don’t even actually remember like when you started because it’s just like, you’ve just been a part of the team for so long.
Kelly Martin (00:41)
Yeah.
Elise – @TheOncoPT (00:46)
So I’m so excited to have Dr. Kelly Martin on the podcast today. And we have a really exciting kind of new episode format that we are going to be doing today. And this really kind of correlates with some of the things we’ve been working on for our private online community called the Onco PT specialization community. We’ll talk more about that later. But before we get into today’s article that we’re going to be excitedly discussing, first of all, Kelly, welcome to the Onco PT podcast.
Kelly Martin (01:15)
Yes, it’s like crazy when I think about it. I still remember when I was a PT student working and trying to figure it out. And so it’s so cool to really see it come full circle for me to even be on the podcast. So first of all, like thank you for the opportunity to be here and just have a good conversation. As Elise said, my name is Kelly Martin. I am a physical therapist in North Carolina.
Since I got into school and really saw the variety of patients that we can treat, I got kind of hooked into the oncopT world and have been exploring my interest in that and kind of growing and figuring out like what avenue in this world that is oncology PT that I want to go down. But some of the areas that I’ve been working in has been a lot of outpatient and active population. And so one of my big
things in oncology, PT is just exercise and getting people back to exercise and activity and sports and whatever they really want to do and being able to kind of empower that patient not like, you know, if you want to go play basketball, run marathons, if you’re doing it before, there’s no reason why we can’t get back to it. Now it may, our progression may look different. It may not be perfect, but.
if it’s something you love, like let’s get after it. That’s our role, right? And so it’s really exciting to get to see these things kind of start to meld together for me. And I’ve been practicing now for almost a year and a half, which is even in and of itself crazy. Like it just has flown by, but just seeing my passions in this population grow is just like unreal. So I’m excited to just continue down the path and
keep working together and get to start this new conversation within the cancer rehab community as well. Just talking about the literature that’s out there, different things. So I’m really excited to talk about this article.
Elise – @TheOncoPT (03:21)
I’m having like a proud auntie moment right now. I’m just like, I remember you as a student and now you’re this, you know, like you’re practicing and you’re out in your community doing all these things. And it’s just like, my God, how cool is that?
Kelly Martin (03:26)
Right?
Yeah, it’s like a crazy, even leading up into this week thinking like, my gosh, my name is on show notes right now. I’m so used to seeing these other people and then listening to the podcast on the back end and now here I am with my name and I’m like, wait a minute, wait a minute, who let me do this? I’m like, I did, I got it. So it’s just really cool to be like, no, my name can be up there too. I’m working hard and.
Elise – @TheOncoPT (03:52)
Mmm, I’m so excited!
Kelly Martin (04:01)
and learning a lot and challenging myself and putting myself in new opportunities and this is a cool new opportunity so it’s been so surreal.
Elise – @TheOncoPT (04:12)
So one of the things that Kelly does on the backend within the Onco PT team is lately she’s been really working with researching and diving into, you know, like what is some current literature, not only for some of the courses that we offer here at the Onco PT, but also as I mentioned previously, we have rolled out on our private specialization community called the Onco PT specialization community weekly research roundups.
And so this is actually one of the big articles that has come out in 2024 that is really making waves in oncology period. So it was really exciting when Kelly ultimately said, let’s do like, let’s do one of this for our research roundups. And frankly, we liked the article so much. We said, let’s talk about it some more. So the article that we’re talking about today is titled Partnering with Social Media Influencers to Ekrub. I’m so sorry.
Equitably improve adolescent and young adult cancer outcomes. A novel strategy to support cancer care delivery. Big title, big topics we’re covering today. But let’s kind of do a little debrief. So I’m gonna just read out a couple big points that I wanted to take away to kind of set the stage for this conversation. And then we’ll get into kind of our back and forth conversation. First of all, if you are listening to this right now,
The article is linked in our show notes and you can find those at theoncopt .com under podcast. And so that article is actually free. You can locate that. I would highly encourage you to actually pull it up as we’re talking through today, because I think some of those points will really drive home from there. So first and foremost, let’s kind of set the stage. AYA Oncology is a very big and underserved patient population.
approximately 90 ,000 AYAs are diagnosed every year with cancer in the United States. And that only adds on to the booming population of cancer survivors that we have. And that does include our AYA survivors. Unfortunately, as you’ve probably heard multiple times before on this podcast and in other sources that AYAs are historically and continue to be underserved and experience a significant amount of disparities, both in their
you know, the timely diagnosis, access to treatment, but also survival and other health challenges that these individuals can face. And so it’s very, very important that we are closing that gap. We’re making sure that these patients have not only access to information, but also access to treatment. And then how do we maximize and really promote long -term survivorship? Because unlike some of our older survivors, we hope that these patients have
50 plus years left to live, you know, even beyond their cancer diagnosis. So this is a very, very important issue, very underserved patient population. So how do we bridge that gap? And this is where the social media influence and whatnot comes in. So again, no surprise, millennials, Gen Z, et cetera, we’re really good at tech. We’re really good at social media. So how can we use what we have available?
to make those connections, to bridge those gaps. And so this is what this article really gets into as far as this is the idea we have, how can we make it work? So Kelly, let’s kind of start chatting now. Why do you think it is so, like, why do you think social media was a good idea here for the authors of this study when, you know, trying to connect with AYA survivors?
Kelly Martin (07:42)
Yeah.
I mean, I think when I read the article and it’s almost like this, like, well, duh. These, I mean, all of us, I laughed one time because I was like, you know, I didn’t have access to a phone growing up until I was probably like 12 or 13. But nowadays you see kids with a tablet, if it’s not their own phone, it’s their parents’ phone. Like, they know how to navigate apps.
They know how to get on the internet and surf the web. I mean, there’s the stuff that they learn and how quickly they learn it. They have, there’s, there’s never not a time where they’re not connected. Sometimes it feels like, and, and so it was like, well, of course that’s like that, duh. Like light bulb. Like if they’re already there, one of the themes I like thought about was like, why reinvent the wheel? If it’s already there and they’re already using it, why, how can we
Elise – @TheOncoPT (08:39)
Mm -hmm.
Right.
it.
Kelly Martin (08:56)
how can we play to our advantage and not try to create something new, just better utilize what’s available to us and that works just like perfectly. And I think even with the pandemic, like where things became even more, you had to become even more tech savvy, it’s like increasingly become technology focused and more than just the face to face is important, that’s still huge. But then,
Elise – @TheOncoPT (09:20)
Mm -hmm.
Kelly Martin (09:26)
that technology piece, how can we connect outside of the clinic? How can we connect outside of our communities? And so I think that’s where that technology piece, social media, whatever it is, whatever platform via technology you access is huge because people always have it at their fingertips.
Elise – @TheOncoPT (09:37)
Mm -hmm.
Ooooo
Mm -hmm. You know, you brought up a really interesting point, Kelly. So first of all, I, which is so silly, I wasn’t even thinking about the pandemic, but like how much explosion of tech have we had and just not even, you know, from like, new platforms and new ways to use technology. Well, sometimes, but just like how much more has shifted online and how much more comfortable are the younger generations like.
you and I and you know, again, millennials, Gen Z tend to be kind of the age range that we’re talking about here. But, you know, going back to this is not to say that face to face is not important. And so I want to draw out what, you know, something that Kelly mentioned previously, which is, you know, ideally now people are going back into the hospitals and the clinics and they’re having that face to face with their providers. But how much time is that really?
in the grand scheme of a day, a week, a month, a year versus, I mean, like literally the world is at our fingertips with our phones and with our computers. And knowing, I mean, this is something we talk about a ton on the Onco PT podcast, which is we don’t get the amount of time that we really could use with our patients. And so a lot of times there’s
there’s questions left unanswered or maybe they don’t even know the question to ask until afterwards and they’ve had time to process. And so it’s so easy to go like pick up your phone, go to your computer, log in and look for this information. And that’s something I really appreciated the authors talked about in this paper was, yes, there’s a ton of information out there, but we also have to be careful. We have to be aware that just because
their stuff on the internet does not make it correct or medically appropriate in this case. And so that’s, I think, what really led them to how can we partner with influencers to increase awareness of what’s available? What kind of support services can we get patients connected with who are in this really unique position of we’re able to use technology really well?
But the available technology doesn’t guarantee that we get correct or appropriate information. You know what I’m saying?
Kelly Martin (12:17)
Yeah, absolutely. I think that was, you know, there’s good and bad to this amazing tool that we have access to. And part of that is that misinformation piece, which they really highlight in the article. They’re like, you know, that’s where I think it becomes important for us to know, like, how are we educating our patients? I feel like a lot of times, even on episodes of this podcast, it comes back to like education, like the words we use and what we tell our patients really matters, right?
Elise – @TheOncoPT (12:30)
Mm -hmm.
Yeah
Kelly Martin (12:46)
and helping them navigate these tools and say, you know, I always would joke with people and say like, when something’s wrong, even though I know how to navigate information, I’m like paging Dr. Google. And then I’ve convinced myself sometimes that I have like five different weird diagnoses wrong and something’s wrong with me. And I’m like, no, I know there’s nothing wrong with me. But it’s like,
Elise – @TheOncoPT (13:04)
Yeah, yes!
Kelly Martin (13:15)
And I even have a lot of knowledge and education. And then so on the flip side, if our patients and even just our younger population, they’re just seeing things and helping them understand like, no, that may not be true, but like these things are true. And like what people and what content is like good for me, helpful for me, gives me…
Elise – @TheOncoPT (13:25)
Mm -hmm.
Kelly Martin (13:43)
positive things versus like negativity and so helping them kind of even navigate that becomes part of our job. If we’re gonna use this tool, whole tool, then we ourselves need to know what’s out there and we need to be able to teach our patients how to even know what’s out, one, know what’s out there and two, how to decide is this worth my time and I should really pay attention or this is not and I should just kind of brush it off.
Elise – @TheOncoPT (14:06)
Right.
Kelly Martin (14:13)
And that could be, I mean, you could probably take a whole treatment session teaching something like that. I mean, it’s crazy. It’s gonna take multiple. And I think it also comes down to building that first initial encounter is starting building that trust. You want that patient to trust you too and say, Elise knows what’s potentially good for me and what’s not. She’s gonna help me navigate that. I trust her. And that starts from day one.
Elise – @TheOncoPT (14:18)
Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm.
Kelly Martin (14:43)
in our care.
Elise – @TheOncoPT (14:46)
It’s really interesting that you’re, you know, you’re bringing it back to the education and, you know, really establishing that rapport at the very, very beginning. I remember, you know, this makes me sound really old. I’m not that old, but also like a lot has changed in five years because I’ve been practicing about five years longer than you have Kelly. And I remember at the beginning of when I was starting to practice, like how many patients were told, don’t go and look things up on the internet.
because for this exact reason of like, we can’t guarantee the quality and like accuracy of everything that you’re finding on the internet. And especially with social media, there’s been such an explosion of, you know, both access to information, but also access to misinformation. And so these days, I don’t think it’s even realistic, maybe even let alone ethical to tell a patient, don’t look this up.
Like don’t go and find information because if I’m diagnosed with something, this is just me, not everybody’s like this, I wanna know all about it. I need to know everything about it. I need to know everything, including treatment and treatment options. And so I think in a way of which we, you know, we learn better, we learn to do better and then we do better. But in that way, I think we’re trying to act as a filter.
for patients and like the information they get, but we’re not guaranteeing that they’re going to get all of the information by saying, don’t go and look this up. You know, like I will tell you everything you need. And so I think this article, this approach that these authors are taking is a really great way of turning that as far as like we’re acknowledging that patients are going to go and look up information. Cause I would, I would period. How can we equip them?
with the tools to go and do that. And I really love the suggestion you gave, which is taking the time to sit with your patient and work through what are some great places to get started finding this information, right? I could say, don’t go and look it up. And then, you know, their TikTok algorithm or whatever is going to pull up God knows what, or I could sit with my patient and say, here are some great accounts to follow, or here are some websites
that are going to be really helpful for finding this information. I think that’s such a great suggestion that you put forth, Kelly. Love that.
Kelly Martin (17:17)
Right, and I think sometimes even for me in beginning in practice, I always sometimes, sometimes I felt like that education piece was like, man, I’m just sitting and talking. This is an intervention. But then like over time, every time I think about it, I’m like, no, like this is skilled. I know something. I know how to sift.
And the person in front of me does not and they want to know. They want to be able to do it for themselves. It’s just like you don’t know what you don’t know. And the more I realize that, the more I’m like, if I need to take 25 minutes and we need to get on the computer and we need to look at these things, then that’s…
Elise – @TheOncoPT (17:54)
Exactly.
Kelly Martin (18:08)
That is therapeutic in and of itself. It don’t have to, it’s like, I guess sometimes I’m like, intervention equals exercise and it does, and that’s great. But intervention also means education. And that is skilled. And it’s so hard because I feel like in PT school, we’re always told like, what was the skill in that? Like, what skill are you providing? And so when I think about having a conversation and just chatting,
Elise – @TheOncoPT (18:10)
Absolutely.
my god, yes.
Kelly Martin (18:36)
That’s what I would initially equate my education to. And I’m like, no, it’s not that. It’s not just a chat. We’re not talking about what we did over the weekend. We’re talking about real things that, like you said, it’s telling someone not to do something is like the red button. They’re gonna go do it. So if they’re gonna do it, then how can we help them navigate those waters? Because there’s, like you said, there’s a lot out there. But knowing that…
Elise – @TheOncoPT (18:44)
Right.
Right.
Kelly Martin (19:02)
I think one of the big things I learned, I’ve learned as a new clinician even, and I think this article kind of brings that full circle again is that like education is skilled. If it takes you, if it takes you two minutes, if it takes you 25 minutes, that’s okay because it’s skilled. Education is intervention too.
Elise – @TheOncoPT (19:10)
Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm. girl. So side note, I just put the finishing touches and submitted my maintenance of specialty certification case reflection. And that was literally one of the things that I talked about in there because I have been in such this same thing of like exercise, more exercises equals better intervention. And I missed like huge things in this patient case because I
Kelly Martin (19:45)
Yeah.
Elise – @TheOncoPT (19:52)
did like I did some education that I was like, exercise. And I totally shot myself in the foot. And it was such a wake up call of like, and you’re right. Like education is, is skilled. my God. And we need to be like really prioritizing that. Anyway, that’s, that’s a little soap box of mine that I’ve like, whoo, very front and center in my clinical practice over the past couple of months. ooh.
That might be a sound bite, Kelly, already from like, ugh, ugh, ooh, girl, I’m so excited.
Kelly Martin (20:22)
I was like, wow, that’s like a phrase. It’s good, it’s good. But it’s good because it’s the truth. It’s so true. And I feel like a lot of people, and maybe I’m speaking very broadly for new clinicians, but I feel like I have struggled being like me chatting with a patient telling them about what I think’s going on or what I think will be helpful is not billable.
Elise – @TheOncoPT (20:31)
Yes!
I’m here for it. Lay it on me.
Kelly Martin (20:51)
or it’s not skilled. And it’s like, no, you’re giving them something that someone else didn’t or you’re giving them it in a different way. And you know, like, I think about like how we learn, people learn in so many different ways and the physician may say it to them one way that clicks and the way I say it doesn’t. Well, it doesn’t matter as long as they understand. It doesn’t matter who says it, but it’s like, it’s just like cues, you know, like
Elise – @TheOncoPT (21:12)
Mm -hmm.
Right.
Mm -hmm.
Kelly Martin (21:18)
can I can have that’s what we’re good at with I can give you six different ways to do something and then once it clicks for you you got
Elise – @TheOncoPT (21:25)
that is so so so important to revisit time and time again, not just with our patients, but with ourselves to really reframe that as education is so important.
and we incorrectly assume that patients are getting this information elsewhere. And it’s not necessarily a malicious withholding of intent, as Kelly mentioned. It may just be that the other healthcare professional does not have the time to cover everything that they need to do in their own session, A, and then also educate whatever else is happening here. And so ideally, we’re covering this information
in our sessions, but we’re also human. also have time constraints that we might be working with. How can we ensure that patients are able to access information that they need that is beneficial to them that is going to answer these questions that they have and that we know where they’re already going to get this information. so I have been, here’s a fantastic example. This is real life. This is not an exaggeration. This is not a joke.
Earlier this summer, I had a patient who came to me with lymphedema. And so I’m talking to her about like, hey, you know, what’s going on? What have you tried? What’s worked? What hasn’t worked? And so as she’s talking me through this, she says, so every morning I get up and I watch my video and I do my exercises. I was like, great. What video is that? Like, let’s establish where we’re at so I can determine, you know,
Is this a video that’s appropriate for her function and you know, where she’s at physically and you know, like, it some crazy exercise video you see on the internet or is it a good one? well, imagine my surprise when she opens up the video and it’s friend of the podcast, Dr. Kelly Sturm cancer rehab PT, one of her YouTube videos. This patient of mine, while she was waiting to get referred for
went out on her own to YouTube to find answers. And I think that’s something that I love that story so much because A, I was so excited that my patient was like, I love Kelly. was like, girl, I love her too. But that patients are going and looking for this information.
It is on us to make sure we know what information is out there. Like what are channels that we can refer our patients to that are going to be helpful? One of my favorites again, Cancer Rehab PT. Talk about some fantastic, dependable exercise education videos. Galore, perfect.
But what if they’re looking for something else? What if they’re looking for information on this side effect and how that actually affects my fertility, for example, if we’re talking about, you know, like a young person who could potentially get pregnant or, you know, wants to have a family at some point. That’s where a lot of this influencer driven content I think can be so beneficial and so important because it really is that person’s experience. And again,
that like I know influencer has such a connotation, but to the listener, if you’re listening to this, hear me out. These are not some randos on the internet who decided that they wanted to be an expert in cancer. Like these are individuals that the researchers found and said, this is good information. How can we connect to bring what we know is so important for AYA cancer survivorship to the masses?
And so this is the last thought that I had Kelly as I was like soaking up your wisdom here. Jimmy McKay of PT Pintcast several months ago, and he’s been talking about this for ages, but specifically at CSM in 2024, he did a presentation that was all about dissemination science and how do we actually take what is being published?
You and I know how to read, Kelly, and the listener knows how to read because they went to PT school and they know how to read an article and say, this is important. This is what this actually means. But that’s, it stops with us. It really does stop with us as a, as a physical therapy profession, as a healthcare field. It stops once that paper has been published and there is very little intentional effective
efforts to bring it to the masses unless it’s really clickbaity, unless it’s something that’s like super sexy or super salacious of like, my God, this article might mean this. That’s not happening. And this met this is just one method again in this amazing article. This is one way that we are taking the research and those really important findings and bringing it so that
It’s understandable, it’s palatable, it’s communicable, but it’s also understandable and accessible for so many people. And anyways, girl, like you’re saying all these things. I’m just like, my God, this is, this is pulling together so many things we’ve been talking about on the podcast over the last year. It’s so exciting.
Dr. Kelly Martin (26:44)
Yeah.
Yeah, I mean it just we come back to a lot of different themes over and over and over again and and even there in this in this article at the end is like their call to action. What we need to do about it is they use the words transform how knowledge is prioritized, translated and used and it’s like big big words but literally you just echoed all of them is like how do we take what’s prioritized? What’s important? What does that person need in front of you? They need an answer
Elise – @TheOncoPT (27:11)
my
Dr. Kelly Martin (27:19)
about X thing that they are scared about, that they’re whatever, whatever their concern is. There’s so many things for an AYA that from a, can only begin to imagine what would make them scared. Am I gonna live? Am I gonna have a family? Am I gonna get to play sports? Am I gonna be a normal kid at a normal school? Can I go to college? Like.
All these, the gamut goes down, like, completely unrelated, but I’ve had a patient and she went to a follow -up and in her follow -up they mentioned the word surgery and she told me when I saw her she was like, as soon as they said surgery to me, I just zoned out. I don’t even really remember what was said. And after
and it was because she’s afraid. She’s like, what? You’re going to tell me I’m going to put my life on hold a little bit to have surgery? Do I even need surgery? What would they even do? And it’s, that you take that same concept with the orthopedic problem and apply to cancer and a patient with a cancer diagnosis that’s going to go through a multitude of things affecting every single system sometimes. And
Elise – @TheOncoPT (28:36)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelly Martin (28:39)
they want the same thing and and how do we translate it to them? How do we make it make sense to them? How is it engaging for them? How do the colors on a post capture their attention and make them want to pay attention and make them want to see why it’s important and and then and put it in the real world put it in places where they’re gonna find it because they’re already there they’re already on tiktok they’re already on threads they’re already on instagram
Elise – @TheOncoPT (28:41)
Right, right.
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelly Martin (29:07)
There’s probably six other apps that younger kids use that I don’t know about.
Elise – @TheOncoPT (29:11)
And we’ll continue to evolve, right? as, yeah.
Dr. Kelly Martin (29:15)
Right. And if I, all I have to do is know about them. I need to know that they exist as a provider.
know that and then take five to ten minutes of my time. It doesn’t take a lot of time, but take that time to look at it a little bit, scope it out a little bit, see what’s out there so that I know, is this good information for my patient to be looking at? Or is this bad information? Or what kinds of things are even being presented so I can start to kind of potentially brainstorm what kinds of questions are they gonna bring to me? What kind of questions are their parents gonna ask of me?
and I’ve got to know what’s out there. And so even in that sense, I’ve got to be aware of the other six options because it’s a way, if they’re connected to it and it’s important to them, then that’s a way to establish that relationship and that trust with the patient. Because you may see them for a long term, you may see them in different stents of their life.
long term. so then again, it comes full circle again, knowing where they’re at in their life and what’s important to them is going to shift what resources you need to give them. What social media
cancer -influencer partnership that’s been made, because that’s really what the authors are trying to do, is how do we establish these partnerships that allow for a network of people to connect with the reliable sources, and so that we don’t have to, we as providers don’t have to reinvent the wheel. We do not have time for that. We get time with our patients.
Elise – @TheOncoPT (30:49)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelly Martin (31:01)
We should, we need to know that the resources are there, but if they’re already out there, I just need to know where they’re at. Just tell me where they’re at. I can use my skills to make sure that they’re good sources. And then I can share, and then I get to disseminate them in the real world with the patient in front of me. What they’re good at, what the influencer who’s experienced it and knows what they’re doing, like the people that these authors are really after.
That’s what they’re good at. Let them be good at that. I just need to know about what they’re good at so I can share it. Because I don’t have time to be good at that. I can’t. I can’t. I can’t. I don’t have time. I got to be good at the clinician side of things and being a PT. So use their strengths. That’s their strengths. Let’s use it to their advantage. I don’t need to make anything new. I just need to know what’s out there. And I think that’s where this article really comes full circle for me. It’s like…
Elise – @TheOncoPT (31:36)
Mm -hmm.
Yeah.
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelly Martin (31:59)
there’s some legwork involved. And I think that this is a, as technology continues to just be the thing in our world to communicate and get out information to the masses and making sure that people have access to devices, whether that’s going somewhere with a free wifi hotspot or going somewhere they have access for computers or when they’re in school, they have access to computers. A lot of students now have school laptops, you know.
Elise – @TheOncoPT (32:29)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelly Martin (32:29)
so that they have access to a tool and so knowing what that tool is and how to get them what they need is so important and it’s intervention when you do it. Because a lot of times if you do it, if you do it and take the time then, you don’t have to take the time after that.
Elise – @TheOncoPT (32:46)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelly Martin (32:55)
maybe it’s just a quick five minutes. If it was 25 minutes first, maybe it’s just a quick five minutes after the fact every now and again to make sure like is this still working for you? Do you have more questions? It’s not 25 minutes every time. You’re still going to do the other things that matter, exercise and things to help them.
Elise – @TheOncoPT (33:07)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelly Martin (33:14)
if you just, I always feel like it was, I was scared to educate and now I’m like, no, it matters. And it’s just like we learn in clinical practice, there’s no way to get to everything on every session. You always come back to it.
Elise – @TheOncoPT (33:31)
Great.
Dr. Kelly Martin (33:33)
In my evaluation, I can’t always get to everything. Every test, every measure, if it matters, you know, I can’t get to everything sometimes. Sometimes the subjective interview needs to take longer. Sometimes the objective needs to take longer and I may not get to other things, but making that plan ahead of time to be like, okay, here’s some things to start with and I can always come back to it and spend more time at in other points in time.
Elise – @TheOncoPT (33:57)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelly Martin (34:01)
I feel like even that was a rant. But it’s just like true reflections of me learning as a new clinician. We get taught these ideals and then you go out into the real world and you’re like, whoa, this is not a textbook. it’s not, I never expected it to be perfect as a PT student. And I’m not gonna, I can’t expect myself now as a new clinician and PT for my career to be perfect at it either.
But if I’m constantly going after that next 1%, that miss by less, that attitude to this population and using a new tool and knowing about new resources for these populations of people, it makes such a difference.
Elise – @TheOncoPT (34:51)
And I appreciate Kelly, what you said earlier about, you know, the authors of this study and we on this podcast talking right now, we’re not asking you to go out and become an expert on TikTok. We’re not asking you to become the next big thing on Instagram, right? That’s not what this is. That’s not what this is about, nor is that realistic.
Like, and if that’s not something that you desire to do that you enjoy doing, don’t do it, friend. Do not do it. But how can we understand what’s out there, connect patients with what we know is out there and what is trustworthy, what is going to be beneficial to them? Again, I keep coming back to, because my patient found those videos by Kelly and then, you know, I recommend different videos from cancer rehab to my patients.
That is amazing because those resources, some of those resources are already out there. And if we can just spend a little bit of time to find them, quick check, vet them, make sure they’re good. That can then be something that we can use in our educational interventions with our patients. So we’re not having to, like you said, Kelly, we’re not having to reinvent the wheel because one of the things that you briefly touched on, and I want to make sure that we discuss,
there are likely only going to be more social media platforms and more methods by which we communicate with other people coming out in the next years. I don’t have a crystal ball, but I would wager to say it’s only a matter of time before the next thing comes around, right? Instagram came out when I was in, I think, like high school or college. And since then, we’ve seen the rise and fall of multiple social media platforms, like, you know, and now TikTok is really big.
Dr. Kelly Martin (36:34)
Mm -hmm.
Elise – @TheOncoPT (36:47)
there are going to be these changes. And the world that even you, Kelly, that you went to PT school in and your professors prepared you for is not a thing anymore. And that’s not to be like doomsday, my God, the world’s ending. The world that we were trained to work in and the circumstances,
Dr. Kelly Martin (37:06)
No.
Elise – @TheOncoPT (37:14)
Those are not a thing anymore, especially after 2020. And I’m tying it back to what you said at the beginning of the episode. Like we, as a healthcare system, like the royal we have to lean into utilizing tech and leveraging the available resources and access that our patients have. Like what do they have? In this case, our
18 to 39 year olds in the AYA patient population, they probably have a phone. They probably have internet access at some point and they can go and find this information. And they are going to go and find this information. And I think this is a lesson that we can take and truly apply with other patient populations. I’m gonna bring it back around. So as I mentioned previously, I did my case reflection for my mosquitos.
And one of the big lessons I reflected on is that I neglected to appropriately educate this patient on what was appropriate exercise dosing for her functional status for her impairments at the time. And so what ended up happening was the complete opposite of what I thought was gonna happen. I thought this patient was gonna be like, I’m not gonna do anything. Like don’t really see how exercise is helpful. And instead she took and ran the opposite direction and actually
injured herself because she was trying to lift too heavy. And she went and found that information, not from her physical therapist, but from a colleague who very recreationally exercises. And that was a total failure on my part because I did not prepare this patient because I did not spend the time doing an intervention, Kelly, like you mentioned, and actually educating that patient.
This I think is such a crude, like this was such a transformative patient encounter for me because I recognize just how important education is and how much I was neglecting it in favor of those like therapeutic exercise, therapeutic activity interventions. Like education is really important. Here is another method by which we ensure we are educating our patients and connecting them
access and resources and services and the community that they are looking for. And we, like you listening to this episode right now, you don’t have to feel the pressure. You don’t have to feel the weight of the world to be all of those things for your patients. You can sit in your strengths and know what those are and show up and serve your patients to the best of your ability.
And where you know you cannot meet those needs because nobody, no one on co -PT should be trying to do all the things. as Alex said in a previous interview, we’re not trying to be, you shouldn’t try to be the quarterback. Like you’re not trying to play all the positions on the team. Like sometimes you have to pass the ball to someone else on the oncology team. And this is a great example of this. These are individuals who are on your team. They may not be on the patient’s formal team.
but we can leverage those resources to meet the needs of your patients right here, right
Dr. Kelly Martin (40:38)
Absolutely, couldn’t say it better myself. It’s just a part of the process. And like you said, they’re not necessarily a direct healthcare provider on the team, but the whole community surrounding
the patient is a part of the team and wants what’s best for them. And if they have a resource for someone who is providing good information that makes them feel connected and unafraid and empowered and all the good things that help them as a survivor, then they’re on the team and they’re important and we should know about them and we should know what their strengths are and what their role is. Just like we would be on any other team. Everyone has a role to play.
Elise – @TheOncoPT (41:13)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelly Martin (41:23)
But everyone on the team has to know what everyone’s role is. So that you can divvy the ball out and divvy out the strength to the people that are best suited to do it. And then it comes down to education again. So that the patient knows. So then even the patient knows or their loved ones know. No, okay. This is where I should.
funnel these questions. Okay, my other questions related to X should be funneled to this person, because this is what they do. So, I mean, just full circle, all the way around. Education empowers the patient, empowers their loved ones, and they can take it far beyond just…
Elise – @TheOncoPT (41:51)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelly Martin (42:09)
The conversations in this article and in this podcast, they can take this to any other thing. They take the same skill set and apply it to other questions they look up about other things. Because it’s the same thing applies. You see it, you look it up, you vet it. Is it good? Does it seem good? What are other things saying? Did you phone a friend that also may have done this before or thought about this before or whatever?
same things applied in a different context. So it’s a life skill, honestly. It just happens for us to be in the healthcare world, which there’s so much, sometimes there’s so much lack of trust or mistrust and fear associated with the system. And this is a great way to tackle that and make that less, decrease that
make it a place where the patient can advocate for themselves, which ultimately empowers them. And that’s our job.
Elise – @TheOncoPT (43:18)
So as we mentioned at the top of this episode, Kelly is one of our very valued teams here at the OncoPT. And one of the big brainchild projects that we have been rolling out that was really kind of Kelly’s doing is our research roundups within the OncoPT specialization community. So if you are not already aware, we have a free online community called the OncoPT specialization community.
that is all about equipping you with what you need to go from a novice oncology physical therapist to a sought after specialist in your area with a masterful grip on oncology physical therapy. So that is free to join. We have included the link in today’s show notes. And one of the things that we do is that weekly we have these research roundups where we have selected an article
We do a debrief on it and we get these conversations started. Because as Kelly mentioned, this is how we actually get information, how we take the research and take it from a very intimidating, maybe boring article and pull out those clinical pearls, right? What are those key takeaways, those main points that we need to understand and then be able to implement into our own clinical practice, into our patient care.
so that we can improve ourselves, our skills, and the quality of care we’re able to provide for patients affected by cancer in our communities. And so if you want more of this conversation, then you definitely wanna join us over at the Onco PT Specialization Community. Again, you can find that link in today’s show notes. We cannot wait to see you over there. We will be continuing these conversations and more in the coming months.
But before we do that, Kelly, anything else you want to leave with the listeners today?
Dr. Kelly Martin (45:17)
I think the biggest thing, the way I would challenge the listeners is take the show notes, go look at the article, read it for yourself if you have time to skim, and then if you’re not already a part of the rehab community, join us. Tell us in a comment what really stuck out to you or.
Elise – @TheOncoPT (45:37)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Dr. Kelly Martin (45:39)
If it’s something I said, at least said that you’re like, I want to dive into that a little bit more. What are other people’s thoughts? Like, now’s the time to do it. It’s right in the forefront of your brain. It’s so much fun to get on there and be like, someone’s commented back to what I posted.
and giving me a new way to think about something and then getting some getting more responses and dialogue started. I mean that’s just so fun and even for me as a new clinician is like man people actually have something to say back to me and what I think and and and it’s always so helpful and it’s a place where we can grow and everyone’s trying to make everyone their best self and their best their best PT and best uncle PT for the patients that they see in their community and I think that’s what’s so cool about it. So
And I think the last thing would be just like, thank you so much for this opportunity. Even when I was a little PT student and said, hey, I need some assist. just even being, just seeing myself from interview to interview for just to the position with you to now being interviewed on a podcast episode is just completely unreal.
I would not have put myself in this, these shoes. And I always joke with people and I’m like, hmm, who thought this was a good idea to put me in this? I do not know. I do not know myself. I do not know who else thought about it. And I always, I’m like, who’d thought that it would be now in this opportunity, but it’s something
you gave me an opportunity to bring an idea to the surface and run with it little bit and really run with it and then giving me an opportunity to have my own voice and empower me to talk about different things that I’m reading and how I’m applying it in patient care and I think that is just so special to me and so this was awesome.
Elise – @TheOncoPT (47:36)
It has been really cool to watch you over the past few years. Like it has been really, really cool to see you grow. So I’m very excited. This was, it’s as much fun as you talk about it being, it’s been really fun to watch this come about and watch you step into your Onco PT self.
Pleasure’s mine, Kelly. I’m glad that you came on the podcast. This will be the first of many interviews that we have Kelly on to talk about research roundups and some other exciting things we’ve got up our sleeves here at the Onco PT. So stay tuned. Yeah. And like Kelly mentioned, if you’re not already part of the Onco PT specialization community, what are you waiting for, friend? The link to join.
Our free online community is in the show notes and I cannot wait to see you over there. And you’ll of course see Kelly around that community, especially when it comes to our research roundups. So Kelly, thank you so much for joining me this evening. This was so fun. I’m very excited to share this interview with our listeners and until next time, this is Elise with the Onco PT. And remember you are exactly the physical therapist that your patients with cancer need. So let’s get to
Dr. Kelly Martin (48:30)
Yes.